* F#
* MVC 2 came out in April
* MVC 3 beta 1 is out
* LInq is out (still supported though), EF4 is in.
* Razor
* Webmatrix
* Silverlight 4
* Expression Studio 4

As someone who took a few steps away from the MS world and is now getting back into it, it is hard to know which direction is the correct one. I started to look at LINQ back when MVC first came out and it looked pretty nice but then word came down that MS was dropping it in favour of EF (though it is still supported, the recommended way is to use EF for various reasons).

Hard to know if they are going to change directions again and drop the technology that I have spent months learning.

You can see the chaos with their other divisions as well (Zune, Bing, WinMo + Kin). There needs to be some overarching vision within the company – they have the brains and talent to turn themselves back into a company that leads in many areas.

Hopefully things settle down a bit because I’ve attached myself to them again and I’m not a fan of bumpy rides.

Yes, it is a bit of an old post, but I don’t really see any big changes in the MVC framework. And as you point out, I really don’t see any advantages to using it for most ASP.Net developers.

I must admit, I haven’t used the ASP.Net MVC bits for a while, but I did have a look at the source code repository on codeplex recently. Despite Scott Hanselman’s statement to the contrary (see the comments above), it really does seem to be a poor implementation of Rails. Granted, the MVC model has been around a long time, but all the other stuff in Rails hasn’t, and they’ve obviously tried to copy it.

As you suggest, I do not see why they didn’t take the bull by the horns, communicate with P&P, and try to create a new framework which makes it quicker to develop and easier to test with WebForms than it has been so far.

I too have my own implementation of MVP, copied and simplified from P&P. It turns out to be a nice model. If they had put the same investment into building nice tools to support that model in Visual Studio, people would have been just as happy, and actually started to use it. Now there is a completely new model, and our customers won’t pay us to use it.

Thanks for your comment. Much appreciated, and very interesting to know how people see the MVC stuff at this late stage.

My MVC experience came from requirements such as a) everything must be expressed in XML b) from customers who were always providing ‘changes’ c) it must run (maybe) on both web and winform. Hence I chose the UIP from P&P. Okay it was messy (maybe due to some design pattern choices I made OUTSIDE UIP) but on the whole it worked (I didn’t worry too much about screen/state flow too much).

Now, I expected a posh(er) version of UIP that allowed be to use my (and my customers) WebForms investiment including all the AJAX stuff. I also like the XML definition as I could generate some cool looking graphs to validate the requirements IN PICTURES (as well as allowing the ‘just configuaration changes’ the salesman promised to our customers).

The MS MVC appears to do away with this and put all the navigation/state tranistion stuff in compiled code. I could cope with that if I didn’t then have to junk all the AJAX stuff we’ve invested in (GridView editing hacks and add-ons etc.). as well as stuff like watermark textboxes etc. Yep, I could re-code these but the point is I don’t want to and nor does my customer wish to pay me to do so. So what do I do (look around for a more grown up UIP so I may answer my own question)?

http://www.iunknown.com/2008/06/ironruby-and-aspnet-mvc.html

Come on man!! Microsoft is just feeding DHH’s master plan. If just 10% of guys who never heard of Rails discover it was the basis of ASP.NET MVC and they fall in love with Ruby, you have just asked them to jump over to the Mac loving Microsoft hating world. That’s what happened to me…and its only a matter of time until I break free of the 800 pound gorilla.

That code is almost identical to Rails code…with only minor differences. Microsoft is a ten headed dragon with each head trying to move the body in a different directions. You know what would be better? Dump Windows…dump it and build an OS from the ground up that can kick OS X’s ass. Spin off companies for SharePoint and all the other shit and let them survive or die in the marketplace. Until you do something smart, I’m going to talk shit about you on a daily basis….and I work in Redmond…but thankfully not for Microsoft.

Anyhow, after watching this video some time ago (now missing in action):
http://subsonic.wekeroad.com/view/all-about-rails.asp
by Rob I was convinced that the MVC is the future.

Nevertheless, I am not sure why Scott downplayed the MVC at the MIX08 saying something like, “99% of you probably won’t be interested in this.” But shouldn’t we be?

Lastly, maybe we should have become history teachers. I think it would have been a lot easier, although a lot less fun.

Oh well!

Okay. I stand corrected.

Totally, I agree that there is lots of Rails-like stuff in there, just as Rails looks like classic Model2. I was calling RenderView and Routing stuff in Java at Nike like ten years ago. I don’t say that to be flippant or defensive (it’s hard to tell “tone” in text) I say it in a matter-of-fact way. MVC concepts are not new and they can only be done so many ways. You know?

I’m not meaning to put the MVC framework down in any way. There’s definitely some great work being done there. You must admit though, the Routing, the RenderView methods, etc, etc, all are extremely similar to Rails.

In itself, that’s not such a bad thing. My only question is can we relieve the pain of ASP.Net as it is now, without having to resort to something completely new.

Richard

Ok, I have an amazing set of tools from MS right now; I am just going to focus on mastering what I have without adding anything new for bit. I feel like a contestant of that “Supermaket Sweeps” game-show. Rushing down the aisles shoving as much technology into a basket as I can in the allotted time.

I love MVC as pattern and I think it’s great for clean development livin’ I just hope that it doesn’t become a casualty of Microsoft new technology fatigue.

To be honest, I don’t really think the ASP.Net MVC Framework (MVC.Net?) is targeted at existing, longtime, hardcore ASP.Net developers. It’s definitely going to have pull with the “in-crowd” currently tinkering with Rails, JBoss Seam and MonoRail, though.

We’re working on many different Monorail projects at work, and we keep looking sideways to whatever ASP.Net MVC “is up to” currently, but have found it to be a bit lacking still. With some time, I’m sure we’re going to make the switch.

Besides, Scott’s gonna’ make everything okay.

++Alan

I will help get you the guidance you’re asking for.